C60 vs S60: The Truth About Carbon 60 and Longevity with Chris Burres

Discover the difference between C60 and S60 in this exclusive conversation with Chris Burres on the Red Light Report. Learn how S60 supports mitochondrial health, longevity, and sleep, plus why Biolight is switching to Bio S60.

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Mike

What's the difference between looking at a product that says C60 versus one that has S60 on its label?

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Chris

So the study where the rats live 90% longer came out in mid 2012. In this case, Wistar rats lived 90% longer than the control group. So the single longest longevity experimental result on mammals in history. Peer reviewed published research because of S60, right? It really does help you sleep deep. It really does give you focus and energy.

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Mike

Welcome to the Red light report. Your number one source for all things red light therapy. We'll also explore all anti-aging and longevity tactics centered around mitochondrial function, especially in the mitochondrial triad, which includes red light therapy, methylene blue, and carbon 16. This is your host, doctor Mike Bell. Koski.

00;00;53;24 - 00;01;17;26

Mike

All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Red Light Report. On today's episode, I'm bringing back Chris Burris, who is co-founder, CS research. He's been producing C60 industrial for industrial applications since the early 90s, I believe, and you were the ones that provided the C60 for that 2012 French study that led to rats living 90% longer.

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Mike

So I always refer to Chris when I have these deep and detailed C60 questions. He is the ultimate expert and he's been on. I don't remember when it was Chris maybe a year or two ago, but thanks for coming back because I wanted you on for this podcast conversation specifically, and we'll get into this after a little more intro.

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Mike

But to really delineate the difference between C60 and S60 as my product or bio lights product, we're literally changing the labeling and the name of the product from bio C60 to bio S60. So I just want us to really walk down that avenue and really delineate why that is because you've been a huge influence on me for changing the name, so I'll get to that.

00;02;03;14 - 00;02;24;18

Mike

But before we do, Chris, welcome back. And I know you are at HLS. We saw each other and also a Dave asked for his biohacking conference early April late May respectively. So just give the audience. I would love to hear your feedback kind of how the conferences went for you if you really got around to other booze, like what other biohacking longevity technology is out there that really caught your eye?

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Chris

Yeah, so well, I'll be on it first. Great, Mike. So glad to be back. So glad to be working with you. And and and kind of, in my impression, helping you to hone a product line that you already got a great handle on. So, so very happy to be working with you. This may not surprise you. I don't get that much opportunity to go from booth to booth.

00;02;45;26 - 00;03;05;09

Chris

Right. And so what I'm really trying to do is get in contact with people so that I can follow up, potentially have them on my podcast to understand what's going on with their with their particular technology. And then, you know, I'm just telling the story, some of the story that we'll tell today a couple hundred times in, in three days.

00;03;05;09 - 00;03;24;15

Chris

Right. And I think, you know, you're used to that. If you're like me, I absolutely love it. I really couldn't it's kind of my happy place. As exhausting as it is. We're running 17 hour days, you know, start the booth at 8:00 in the morning. Really? The lunch in this case at the bio hacking conference. There's training during lunch.

00;03;24;15 - 00;03;45;29

Chris

So I'm like, just listening to training, getting back to the booth, dinner. In some cases, it's dinner with Biohacker hours, and then we're at the bar networking until 1:00 in the morning, and then we're back at the booth at eight. Part of the reason I can do that for those days is because of S60, right? Because it really does help you sleep deep.

00;03;46;04 - 00;04;04;09

Chris

It really does give you focus and energy. And I'll tell you, I do more of the product on days of the show than I do any other time of the year. Right? Like I'm just doing shot after shot with different customers who are coming by different influencers, whatever. And so it's a lot, and it gets me through the day.

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Chris

I will say this for anybody who's thinking about conferences and I'll tell you, Dave Asprey is biohacking conference is one of the more expensive ones. And so it may not be on a lot of people's budget radar. Right. But getting to a biohacking event, if you're on any sort of of health journey, you are often on that health journey all by yourself, right?

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Chris

Like sometimes not even your spouse is supporting you or they're supporting you, but they're not doing like they're they're still eating Twinkies. And you're, you know, like trying to eat healthy. And that's an extreme example. But you may not feel that you have support. Getting to these events is a great way to have a lot of support. And you're going booth to booth.

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Chris

Everybody at these events, even if even if they don't look the fittest, they're there because they're trying to move in the direction of being fitter, right? Being healthier. And so it really can become that tribe that you really need. You need that support group. And yeah, I know you are the same as me, Mike. You just walk away from each event with some, some great relationships and people that you're you know, I think you were telling us before we got started that people that the relationships are continuing three years after that first event that you met them at.

00;05;17;10 - 00;05;36;15

Chris

And so I really do think that that's good. Now, I can tell you, I was at an event, I actually went to a wellness retreat and something that I'm pretty interested in, and actually I just reached out to them literally last night to get a piece of their equipment. It's called Bimini, and they do nano oxygen bubbles in water.

00;05;36;15 - 00;05;54;14

Chris

Right? So they've got equipment that looks like a chiller, and you can connect your bathtub to a piece of equipment that sits out of your bathtub and chills the water. Right. Well, this one actually will oxygenate the water, but they do it with nano oxygen bubbles. And so you're actually able to your body is actually able to absorb these oxygen bubbles too.

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Chris

You get a higher density. So you can get a higher concentration of oxygen in the water than if it's non nano oxygen bubbles. And then too, your body can uptake it. They were even talking about I recorded some content with them where they're doing a foot soak of just a foot soak of these nano oxygen bubbles and monitoring and measuring at the temple changes in oxygen.

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Chris

Right. So it's uptake through your feet, which by the way, is a is a low blood flow, right. Like you have blood flow challenges at your feet. So it's pretty spectacular. And so I'm excited about trying that as kind of a hyperbaric chamber alternative. I think the data on hyperbaric chamber is pretty solid. I wish I had one at my house.

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Chris

I wish my wife had one at her spa. I wouldn't use it as much as I want to, but I would still have access to it. Where this is a little bit more manageable, right? You don't need to crawl into it. You don't need to. You know, there's a lot of things. If you've got somebody who's less mobile, mobile, mobile than they could do a foot soak or they can get into their bathtub.

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Chris

Right. So I'm pretty excited about that. That's the thing that's on my radar. Literally sent an email last night. Hey, what does it look like to rent one of your pieces of equipment? So I'm excited about that.

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Mike

How spendy are one of those relative to like, a hyperbaric chamber?

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Chris

Yeah. So hyperbaric chambers I think start in the range of 10 to $15,000. Right. So way up there I think for about $3,000, you could get a unit that sits next to your bathtub. Okay. And if you look at those as comparable now, you know, in a hyperbaric chamber and actually need to have Jason Saunders back on the podcast to talk about, hey, there's a big difference between like one atmosphere, right?

00;07;33;06 - 00;07;55;02

Chris

So being twice the natural pressure that's around us and then two atmospheres, which would be I think four times the well. So one atmosphere is the is the actual pressure. One extra atmosphere would be twice. Right. Because your current pressure plus one and then two I think end up being like four x. And those can actually shove more oxygen into your tissues.

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Chris

The goal there is not to just oxygenate oxygenate your blood, right? Because most of us are floating around at a 98% oxygen saturation rate. Run our blood. You know, anytime you've been at the doctor, they snap that thing on your finger. It's at like 98. So you really can't get much improvement there. By having pressure, you can put more in the there.

00;08;12;21 - 00;08;20;15

Chris

I don't have a great compare and contrast but but in terms of pricing, you know, you're talking potentially $3,000 versus, you know, 10 to 15.

00;08;20;17 - 00;08;22;09

Mike

You see that's called a semi machine.

00;08;22;16 - 00;08;33;13

Chris

Bimini, which is a very cool. I actually considered naming my product Bimini also because it is the name of the island that was supposed to have the fountain of Youth.

00;08;33;13 - 00;08;37;12

Mike

Oh, interesting. Well, geographically, where is that?

00;08;37;16 - 00;08;41;18

Chris

I think it's like a Bermuda Triangle, this kind of area.

00;08;41;21 - 00;08;44;07

Mike

Interesting. Bimini didn't know that.

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Chris

Yeah, no, it's kind of cool. You know, it rolls off the tongue. It's, you know, it's it's got a ring to it. But I forget why we decided not to go with Bimini. Maybe. Maybe there were some trademark issues or something.

00;08;55;20 - 00;09;02;14

Mike

God, you know, that's interesting. That's the first time I've heard of that machine or really that concept. So obviously. Look, it's more it's interesting.

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Chris

It's it's pretty cool. They started actually using the nano oxygen bubbles in like ponds and lakes so that they could oxygenate a pond or lake for whatever purpose they, that you would oxygenate, you know, a larger, a larger body of water. And because they were, again, because they were these nano oxygen bubbles, they would stay in solution a lot longer.

00;09;24;17 - 00;09;46;13

Chris

And so you know, you end up oxygenating the body of water for a better period of time. And then they just kind of, I think fairly recently, maybe in the last five years. And and at his facility, he's got a row of photos of all these athletes. I don't watch much sports. So I didn't record. I think I recognized 1 or 2, but, you know, all these athletes that they're working with because again, it's just a it's a great technology.

00;09;46;13 - 00;10;02;22

Chris

You sit in the tub. So I'm excited to get it. I've actually had my Achilles has been really tender and it's kind of prevented me. I love to sprint. Sprinting is one of the best ways. That actually is a great way to increase testosterone. So I'm missing that. I'm not sprinting right now. So I was I'm hoping that'll work.

00;10;02;22 - 00;10;05;23

Chris

And and so I'm excited about getting that piece of equipment.

00;10;05;26 - 00;10;38;18

Mike

All right, guys, firelight has recently released its newest, most well rounded mitochondrial support supplement, and we're calling it The Fountain of Youth. More technically, it's bio blue Fountain of Youth because it does contain, in one version, methylene blue. In another version, local methylene blue, alongside a slew of other efficacious and effective mitochondrial boosting compounds. So like I mentioned, one of the hero ingredients is methylene blue or another version, local methylene blue.

00;10;38;18 - 00;11;04;21

Mike

And then the other hero ingredient is euro and a. And then we also include three types of the most mitochondrial impactful versions of mushrooms, such as lion's mane, cordyceps and chaga. And then we also include a high quality organic quality. Sheila G8 and I should mention the mushrooms are all organic, but then an organic quality Sheila G8, which contains humic and folic acid.

00;11;04;21 - 00;11;25;15

Mike

So again, just like the liquid that has for the acid helps you better absorb whatever you take with it so it gets deeper into the cells. That's why we're including the Sheila G here. And then lastly PK, which is amazing for Micro Genesis or the formation of new mitochondria. So again this is the Cadillac of mitochondrial support supplements.

00;11;25;15 - 00;11;49;04

Mike

So if you're someone who is very focused and excited about improving your mitochondrial function, again this is the most comprehensive supplement on the market at this point. For those that are interested. Again this is called Bio Blue Fountain of Youth. You can use discount code f o y 15 FOY15 to get 15% off your first order. And again we have two versions.

00;11;49;04 - 00;12;13;26

Mike

One is called Bio Blue Fountain of Youth and then the other one is Bio blue fountain of Youth. Lucho. Because of course that incorporates the lucho methylene blue, which is kind of a supercharged version of methylene blue. But also remember, you can always choose the subscription on all of our supplements, so you can always get a 10% off your order and then have it subscribe for one month, or every two months, or every four months, or every six months.

00;12;13;26 - 00;12;44;29

Mike

And then you can also choose the bio blue Fountain of Youth in our bio bundle. And so by choosing a bio bundle that automatically unlocks 15% off. So with the bio bundle, you choose one Bio blue product and then you choose one bio C60 product, either the regular or the concentrated version of bio C60. And so if you choose the bio bundle plus the subscription version of the bio bundle, which unlocks an additional 10% off, you can get 25% off total of the entire bio bundle.

00;12;44;29 - 00;13;06;18

Mike

So again, you can get 25% off the Fountain of Youth by using the bio bundle. If you just want to dip your toes into the water, use discount code for 15 to get 15% off and try this most comprehends of well-rounded mitochondrial support supplement that we're offering now at Bio Light. What what is the mechanism or like how are they making the nano?

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Chris

Yeah, to be honest, that's probably patented like an intellectual property. So it's I think they're using a standard oxygen generator. Right. Like that that you might see being tugged behind a wheelchair or something, you know, in a, in a mall with a bunch of mall walkers. Right? And then they've got their technology to actually turn it into nano bubbles.

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Mike

Gotcha. Okay. I want to make sense. If it's that unique, of course you're going to protect that that technology.

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Chris

Yeah.

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Mike

No interest in anything else at the conferences that really caught your eye.

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Chris

I mean, there are so many things that I wanted to try. Somebody I think they had me do a like a kind of effectively a litmus strip. And it was measuring, I think it was measuring nitric oxide. And then I was supposed to take something and then go back. I never went back. I got too busy. So that would be cool.

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Chris

I, I recently interviewed Doctor Nathan Bryan about nitric oxide and you know, there's that's some impressive there's impressive importance of nitric oxide in in your body like the impact on vasodilation right. So you can have like a a cialis or a Viagra response in terms of increasing the size of your vasculature. And I think that's a pretty important technology.

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Chris

So yeah, I wish I had gotten been able to go back and looked at my nitric oxide concentration.

00;14;27;18 - 00;14;54;03

Mike

When they talk or educate about nitric oxide, because I've been kind of down this rabbit hole ever since I got into methylene blue, because one of the mechanisms of methylene blue is that it inhibits nitric oxide, which then make question if it's so good, what's going on here? And then you go deep enough. I think it was I don't know if it was Doctor John Lawrence's book where I first saw it or it was a different book, but there's three different types of nitric oxide, right.

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Mike

There's two that are we'll call them good. And then one that's less good because I one that's less good is synonymous or analogous to like chronic inflammation where acute inflammation is not bad but chronic not so good. So there's endothelial Nasser in US. Neuronal nice or nice. Both of those are good if you will. And that inducible Nasser Inos is one that activates the immune system which again acutely good but chronically not so good.

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Mike

And so I know this is the one that methylene blue inhibits red light promotes Enos and H bot or hyperbaric promotes and knots. Are those something like the booths or that expert you had on? Are they delineating the different types of nurses or are they is it more of a blanket statement? Because I think that's where there could be some confusion in the masses.

00;15;45;17 - 00;15;59;03

Mike

If we're saying nitric oxide is good, which means all nitric oxide, or are they breaking it down? A little more detail because really, I was searching hard to find like, okay, if it's it's mostly blues inhibiting nitric like what's going on here?

00;15;59;05 - 00;16;19;24

Chris

Yeah. What is the value. And you bring up a very good point. So the thing that I did kind of ask and get some delineation on was nitrate and nitrate. But we didn't get into those three forms like you were talking about. Every time we record a podcast, we walk away and we have more homework, right? Like that's just not to work.

00;16;20;00 - 00;16;38;02

Chris

Yeah, we did a lot of homework to get prepared for the podcast. Then we do the podcast and we have more homework. So I actually would love to dig into that myself because, you know, there are some people who will say like because methylene blue decrease, it has a negative impact on nitric oxide. And it's something that they would actually absolutely recommend against.

00;16;38;04 - 00;17;00;27

Chris

I, I, I'm not convinced. Right. And you actually bring a valuable point. Like if there's three things like you can look at it like the S60 molecule, it is a selective antioxidant. Right. So if you're selectively inhibiting the right thing this actually might be good. I actually you've just given me more homework. So thank you. My pleasure.

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Mike

My pleasure Chris.

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Chris

Is returning the favor.

00;17;04;11 - 00;17;20;27

Mike

Okay. So we'll speaking of S60 let's kind of go there now. Maybe that's a good segway. I don't know where you want to start the conversation. Maybe you want to talk about we kind of did this last conversation. But but it's been a while and I talk about it quite often here on the podcast. But maybe from your expert like high level expertise.

00;17;20;29 - 00;17;32;05

Mike

Let's break down the benefits of S60 to some of the mechanisms. And then we can kind of go into the conversation about C60 versus S60 and what that all is about. And then first of all, yeah.

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Chris

Let's what what is.

00;17;33;20 - 00;17;35;24

Mike

Easy S60 stand for.

00;17;35;26 - 00;17;57;23

Chris

Yes. First off S60 stands for elemental safe spheres 60 atoms. Right. And we'll talk about why we made that demarcation. Because I think it's really important. And and it does have a parallel with the story. Let me just real quickly I'm holding up a model of the molecule. Right. So it's 6060 carbon atoms in the shape of a soccer ball.

00;17;57;27 - 00;18;18;22

Chris

If you're listening, just imagine a soccer ball where the lines on the soccer ball represent the bonds between the carbon atoms. So 60 carbon atoms, the molecule was discovered in 85. The scientists who discovered it won the Nobel Prize in 96. We actually started manufacturing and distributing it in 1991. So for five years before they won the Nobel Prize, they thought the molecule would be toxic.

00;18;18;22 - 00;18;40;22

Chris

They put it in a study instead of being toxic. The test subjects, in this case Wistar rats, lived 90% longer than the control group. So this single longest longevity experimental result on mammals in history, peer reviewed, published research is because of this molecule. Very proud to say that my lab provided the material in my lab as mentioned in that original study.

00;18;40;25 - 00;19;03;01

Chris

So oldest and longest manufacturers of the molecule on the planet, we actually provided the material mentioned in the original study. So we can talk about some of the benefits that people experience on the product. The first thing, and our most consistent testimonial is that people take it in the morning. They report mental focus and energy during the day and then better sleep that night.

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Chris

I like to pause at this because taking something in the morning and positively impacting sleep at night is not normal, right? And I ask lots of experts. The only you know, what could I possibly take in the morning to positively impact sleep at night? The only response I've ever gotten was ashwagandha. But then I talked to other kind of more.

00;19;22;22 - 00;19;35;10

Chris

I year experts and they're like, no, no, no, ashwagandha. You have to take in the morning. And that actually will give you focus and energy during the day. And then when you take it again at night, it will help you sleep at night like you do have to take it at night. It's not take it in the morning.

00;19;35;15 - 00;19;58;15

Chris

Positively impact sleep at night. And we do know things as simple as exercise. If you were to exercise in the morning, that would positively impact your sleep. And if you were to get some exposure to the sun right, your red light expert, you know, get exposure to the sun in the morning. If you don't get a get a panel right and get your circadian rhythm in line with the rising and falling of the sun, that'll help you sleep that night.

00;19;58;15 - 00;20;19;09

Chris

So it's a pretty unique benefit. And let me talk a little bit about sleep from my perspective. So I have two embarrassingly admit that I used to take two naps before noon on Saturdays and Sundays and what that would look like. And my wife and I have twins. They just turned 15, but back when they were little, they would wake up early.

00;20;19;16 - 00;20;38;00

Chris

I would go down, I would literally lay on the couch. They would sit on top of me and they would watch cartoons. This is a great parenting technique because if they wanted to get up, they would actually wake me up. And so then I would know what's going on. So I would take that first nap. We would go downstairs for breakfast, we would come back upstairs, resume the position, and then I would take my second nap.

00;20;38;00 - 00;20;56;28

Chris

Now if I, you know, obviously if we were out of town, if we had something to do, I didn't need those naps, but I absolutely took those consistently. When I started taking our product, taking S60 on a regular basis, they were still young. And so we were still like, get into cartoon watching mode, but I wouldn't. I just wasn't tired.

00;20;56;28 - 00;21;12;19

Chris

I wouldn't fall asleep. And so then I would get up and do stuff. And that has a parallel with a testimonial that I'll share in a little bit. In fact, let me share that right now. So Gwen, she's one of our larger distributors in in the city of Houston. By the way, let me just throw out this. I'm sharing some anecdotes.

00;21;12;19 - 00;21;39;20

Chris

I'm sharing some testimonials. I always say, hey, just assume this won't happen for you and understand that the FDA has not evaluate our product. It is not intended to treat, diagnose, cure, or prevent any disease. So Gwen originally bought the product for her dog. She had no intention of taking it herself. She has a shiatsu, and she noticed such a profound difference in her shiatsu that she decided that she should be taking the product herself.

00;21;39;22 - 00;21;57;10

Chris

And I like to pause there because, you know, as soon as you're dealing with anything new, whether new, you know, kind of new for a lot of people, methylene blue, whether it's S60, one of your your radar should be going off. And this is what should be, hey, I don't know. This is new. Is this just placebo effect going on.

00;21;57;10 - 00;22;16;27

Chris

Right. Like that's a legitimate thing by the way. Placebo applies to everything. It applies to statins that apply to literally everything you ever take. Placebo applies. Right? What you think it's going to do is going to help. When you drink orange juice. Let's pretend vitamin C didn't help your immune system at all. If you drink orange juice and you know that it's going to help your immune system, guess what it does.

00;22;17;00 - 00;22;36;29

Chris

That's because of the placebo effect. So it does impact literally everything. But what doesn't happen is the placebo effect in pets. Right? So when this shitzu is running around, has more energy, is not napping as much as it used to. It's not because it realized it had its little dropper of S60 in the morning, and now it's supposed to have more energy.

00;22;37;02 - 00;22;57;27

Chris

No, that's just how it feels. So she started taking the product, and I remember I did a video with her in about three months in. She said, listen, if you had asked me if I noticed anything, my first response would be, no. Except I kind of took stock of my life and I realized that I was working. Later, I saw I was getting more done.

00;22;58;04 - 00;23;16;16

Chris

I was waking up earlier. I was never a morning person. And then arguably the worst testimonial about a supplement ever. I clean my garage. We don't use that in any marketing material, but that does mean something, right? Cleaning out your garage is a big task. There may even be emotional baggage in the garage that you don't want to face.

00;23;16;16 - 00;23;50;07

Chris

Like there's it's a big deal. And so it really does mean something. And so that's Glen Gwen and that was her. I kind of use that as some people ask, how quickly can I see response with S16? And you know, that's my example of, hey, sometimes it's pretty subtle if you think about better sleep. And all of us, unless we're Brian Johnson, get one extra hour of sleep or one less hour of sleep kind of every night during the week, like maybe it's 30 minutes, maybe it's an hour and you don't really notice.

00;23;50;07 - 00;24;17;19

Chris

And in Gwen's case, she didn't notice until she had to stop and kind of think about how things were going in her life. The opposite of that is one of our testimonial videos. We got lady out of the UK. She said, hey, she had taken the product in the morning. She recorded her video that night and she said, hey, I did not finish my cup of coffee today and if you're a coffee drinker like, and you noticed that you didn't finish your coffee drinker, you know that that means something, right?

00;24;17;19 - 00;24;33;06

Chris

So she had that say, focus and energy related to taking the product. So and that was the first day experience. So some people will share first day experience. Some people even take it and go like, oh, I really feel it. And I think those are people who are really in tune with their body. I am not that person.

00;24;33;06 - 00;24;49;11

Chris

I wish I was like, I wish I had that kind of intuitive sense with myself. I don't, and I have a couple of examples that I've I've received like, well, maybe I'm not as in tune with my body as I would like to believe, but some people give that and then like I said, some it's kind of further down the road.

00;24;49;13 - 00;25;09;12

Chris

I'll also share migraine. So we have to be really careful, right? Migraines. We're not saying we're curing migraines. Again, assume this won't happen for you and but I'll share my story. So I am the kind of geeky scientist that you see in front of you. I have a spreadsheet going all the way back to 2014 tracking my migraines.

00;25;09;12 - 00;25;27;22

Chris

I used to get 4 or 5 migraines per year. I was tracking them to try and understand, you know, maybe I went drinking the night before and I could avoid them. Or maybe I had a fight with my girlfriend and I could avoid them. Or maybe I just didn't get enough or whatever I was trying to figure out why I was having migraines so I could stop them because they really, really suck.

00;25;27;24 - 00;25;48;25

Chris

So 4 or 5 per year and 2018 was the first year I really started taking S60 on a regular basis. I didn't have a single migraine. In fact, the next migraine happened when I got off the product intentionally for ten days because I was participating in our own sleep study, and I ended up getting a migraine. And I'll share.

00;25;48;25 - 00;26;11;18

Chris

I get 1 or 2 a year now, but the dynamics of the migraines are extremely different. Meaning if you've had a migraine, you get this thing called an aura in your field of vision. So it looks like a little section of your vision that looks like a kaleidoscope in my case. And that kaleidoscope kind of, for me, starts on the outside and I know I'm going to get one, and then it'll end up in my middle of my field of vision.

00;26;11;20 - 00;26;32;08

Chris

Normally for migraine, people who have migraines, this means you're wiped out, right? Like you need to go home, close the curtains, make sure the AC on high, make sure there's no noise, and it really just ruins your day and potentially two days. And then you actually have residual wear. You know, touching your head hurts your brain for days.

00;26;32;10 - 00;26;55;28

Chris

That doesn't happen to me. This aura comes into my middle of vision. So it's not I usually don't do emails and reading when that's happening, but I could record a podcast, I can get work done, I can do phone calls. Then it goes away and I'm back to normal. Right? This is this. What I just described is not normal for my migraines and certainly wasn't my normal experience when you couple this with my wife.

00;26;55;28 - 00;27;17;20

Chris

So my wife used to get nine plus migraines per month, and I remember the number nine because she was prescribed a medication that they would only give her nine. So anything over nine and she really got up to 13. Everything over nine. So ten, 11, 12, 13 she had to manage without any medication. It took me a while to convince my, you know, spouses.

00;27;17;24 - 00;27;38;06

Chris

Sometimes they don't listen to you and sometimes they're like, what do you know about supplementation? But I finally I finally got her to try the product, and she was down to 1 or 2 migraines per month or every other month, like instantly. Oh, and she is still like probably one a quarter or something. So she has the medication, but she's not blowing through nine a month.

00;27;38;11 - 00;27;58;04

Chris

She's blowing through like nine over more than one year. So that's a really, really solid space again. All right. You got to be careful kind of claiming that we address migraines. We're not going to claim we address migraines just sharing what we have. And we'll actually talk about mechanisms of action and why we think that might be might be going on.

00;27;58;04 - 00;28;04;04

Chris

Yeah. So those are some of I don't know if you have your own experience on the molecule or what that looks like.

00;28;04;06 - 00;28;06;14

Mike

Great question Chris. Personally I.

00;28;06;15 - 00;28;09;07

Chris

Would you're pretty optimized is one of the main.

00;28;09;09 - 00;28;31;21

Mike

Relatively speaking. So when I first started trying methylene blue a couple of years ago, that first dosage, I noticed within minutes, like my brain, I hate to say buzzing, but like in a positive way. Like I could feel energy going on. Mental clarity, just everything was like raised cognitively. I already been on methylene blue for a while, and I'm not saying they're the same thing because they're not.

00;28;31;21 - 00;28;56;00

Mike

And I explain that thoroughly. In my education, I think I internalized the methylene blue kind of working more internally inside the mitochondria, donating electrons, which helps reduce free radicals, oxidative stress S60 more so externally, helping clean up the external environment, allowing the mitochondria to thrive that way. There's probably some internal mechanisms too, since S60 is so small, but who knows at this point.

00;28;56;02 - 00;29;18;15

Mike

So by the time I tried S60, it wasn't the same effect. Had I reversed the temporal sequence, I think would have been the same thing. Just I would attribute that initial cognitive spike and things like that to the S60. So it's just based on the research, based on that longevity study, its ability to help with sleep, maybe athletic performance, stuff like that.

00;29;18;18 - 00;29;39;19

Mike

I just want the benefits of the top compounds that are going to promote wellness acutely in longevity long term. So I don't have any amazing anecdotes, unfortunately, but a lot of them, like you've already talked to, like other people have referred to or customers, it's always that improved cognition or energy and or the improved sleep and or the reduction in pain.

00;29;39;22 - 00;29;42;04

Mike

Those are the most three common ones for sure.

00;29;42;06 - 00;30;06;01

Chris

Yeah. And, you know, there's one other example that I didn't that I wanted to share because it really is the extreme. Let me share this example. So let's get into one where we've landed on method. Method of action. Like how is this working in the system. And you mentioned mitochondria already. And I'll kind of layer in where I think methylene blue applies where S60 is slightly different.

00;30;06;03 - 00;30;29;02

Chris

So we call this current theory the boss theory which is buffering oxidative stress system. So we know from peer reviewed published research that the S60 molecule gets into the mitochondria. We also know from way back in the 90s that this molecule can hold up to six negatively charged particles on the exterior of the cage. So a little bit I'll keep the refresher.

00;30;29;02 - 00;30;52;03

Chris

Super short mitochondria, the powerhouse of every cell in your body. There's between 50 and 5000 mitochondria in every cell in your body except for your blood cells, which have zero, and your brain and neurons, which have 2 million. Right. That's why you're getting the buzz is if you're positively impacting something that has 2 million mitochondria per cell, your brain cells, then yeah, you're going to get that inner energy.

00;30;52;03 - 00;31;23;11

Chris

But like all energy sources, there's a negative by product. And they're called reactive oxygen species. So if you think about energy sources your car going down the road has exhaust, your power plant has smoke coming out of the smokestack. In the case of mitochondria it's reactive oxygen species. And that's after methylation has a methylene blue has I just made a new name methylene after methylene blue has added its benefit which is in the actual process of energy production is that is my understanding.

00;31;23;11 - 00;31;49;05

Chris

Right. So by helping to produce energy more efficiently that's great. Right. So your car is running more efficiently but still has a negative byproduct. Maybe the negative byproduct is reduced but it's still there. Your power plant right is running more efficiently. There's more power coming out, but there's still smoke coming out of the smokestack. So you still have reactive oxygen species coming out of the mitochondrial electron transport chain that that process.

00;31;49;08 - 00;32;13;18

Chris

And that's where we think the S60 molecule comes in. Well first let's talk about how does the mitochondria manage those reactive oxygen species. Initially they manage it with two antioxidants typically glutathione and melatonin. Right. Glutathione to master antioxidant melatonin. We're all familiar with as the sleep hormone, which has nice parallels with the testimonials that we get related to sleep.

00;32;13;18 - 00;32;37;10

Chris

That's our most consistent testimonial. So what happens when a mitochondria gets overwhelmed. And this actually might be increased with methylene blue. Maybe methylene blue amps up the energy production and you end up producing a few more reactive oxygen species than can be managed internally. Maybe that's why these work so well together. We again, we know from peer reviewed, published research that this S60 molecule was in the mitochondria.

00;32;37;12 - 00;32;59;11

Chris

And so we believe it holds on to the negatively charged reactive oxygen species. So they can't run around and do damage. By the way I picture reactive oxygen species like little bumper cars, right. Everything they bump into they're rusting or causing oxidative stress or oxidative damage. And that happens only when the mitochondria can't manage the reactive oxygen species.

00;32;59;11 - 00;33;20;18

Chris

It's producing. And again it manages those with glutathione and melatonin. So now when you've stressed mitochondria and by the way how do you stress mitochondria I like to joke. Well you live in modern society and you have stressed mitochondria right. You've got emfs. You've got cell phone emfs, you've got tough workouts, right? If you're working out properly, you want to do resistance training.

00;33;20;18 - 00;33;45;19

Chris

You want to have those tough workouts. That's when it's producing extra reactive oxygen species. And that's when this SS 60 molecule comes in and holds on to them. Now here are some really good. Well, I'll finish that story. So then when the mitochondria can replenish the grid, get back to homeostasis and replenish the glutathione and melatonin, then it can handcuff themselves to those reactive oxygen species and then manage them properly.

00;33;45;26 - 00;34;17;14

Chris

So I've got a fun analogy, and I think you'll agree all biology analogies should start with Mardi Gras. Certainly a lot of biology happens at Mardi Gras. So so it's the end of Mardi Gras, and you have these drunk reactive oxygen species on, on Bourbon Street smashing into cars and busting windows, causing oxidative stress and oxidative damage. And you've got the glutathione and melatonin, the New Orleans Police Department coming in and handcuffing themselves to those reactive oxygen species and getting them off of Bourbon Street.

00;34;17;16 - 00;34;42;23

Chris

But what is the New Orleans Police Department do when they get stressed? When they get overwhelmed, they throw those reactive oxygen species into a paddy wagon. They attach them to the exterior of this S60 cage so they can't do any damage. And then when the New Orleans Police Department can replenish the glutathione and replenish the melatonin, then they can handcuff themselves to those reactive oxygen species and get them off of Bourbon Street.

00;34;42;27 - 00;35;07;05

Chris

And so that's why we say that the S60 molecule is the boss of buffering oxidative stress system. So one thing to note and this gets kind of a little bit more nuanced, is reactive oxygen species that are produced by the mitochondria can be both positively and negatively charged. And we know that reactive oxygen species are signaling molecules. Right.

00;35;07;05 - 00;35;26;00

Chris

So if you were to just make all reactive oxygen species in your body go away, that's actually not a good thing. Your body like one cell, the mitochondria needs to be able to speak to you that other mitochondria. And it does this to some degree with reactive oxygen species. And it turns out it does it with the positively charged ones.

00;35;26;07 - 00;35;53;00

Chris

And the negatively charged ones are the ones that tend to cause more oxidative stress and more oxidative damage. So here you have the S60 molecule holding on to the reactive oxygen species. That tends to do more damage, and letting the reactive oxygen species that does the signaling go. So it really is this this kind of ideal situation where you're allowing this signaling to occur and you're preventing the damage from occurring.

00;35;53;03 - 00;36;16;05

Chris

And if you think back to kind of all the testimonials that I shared, and I'm about to share one with kind of someone who expresses to an extreme the mitochondria, if you're reducing the negative impact of stressed mitochondria, you're going to have head to toe testimonials. You're gonna have positive impacts from head to toe. And let me give you this one more analogy.

00;36;16;09 - 00;36;34;18

Chris

It worked well. We'll give you this testimonial. So Anthony Kunkel is a two time US ultra running champion. He loves our product. He actually typically will work booze with us. It's kind of hard to draw him out of. Where's he at? It's not Boulder. He's Durango, Colorado. So it's hard to get him off the mountain of Durango, Colorado.

00;36;34;18 - 00;36;54;14

Chris

He's got a training camp up there, by the way. You can go train with him. It doesn't matter what level you are, you can train with him and it would be a fantastic experience. I will do that at some point. So Anthony is a two time U.S. ultrarunning champion. He won a U.S championship at 50 miles and at 50 K, 50 K is 62 miles.

00;36;54;16 - 00;37;13;27

Chris

And my first conversation with him was pretty fantastic because he said, Chris, I was taking one serving of your product and I didn't really notice anything. And then I joke like all good biohackers he tripled the serving. By the way, don't like if you're a biohacker don't triple everything. There are things that you should never triple. So you know I am.

00;37;14;01 - 00;37;39;12

Chris

There's a little bit of facetious ness going on there. When he tripled the serving, he said, I was like, wow, your product could be the difference between somebody having running as a hobby and owning somebody, having running as a career. And he described it this way, Chris, and this was before I really had the boss theory in place, right before I was really kind of getting down to the mitochondrial level, he said, Chris, I don't think your product speeds recovery.

00;37;39;18 - 00;37;58;08

Chris

I think your product prevents damage in the first place. And the reason he said that is because on the last five miles of a 50 mile run, by the way, that's a phrase I've only ever heard from Anthony. Yeah, I don't think I'll hear from anyone else. Where strength and stability were previously a problem, they were not a problem.

00;37;58;12 - 00;38;17;27

Chris

Right. Because it wasn't doing the damage. So here's the analogy that I have for this. Stress is actually really important. If we don't have stress, things go wrong in our body. If you want a great example of this, imagine astronauts think about astronauts when they go up into space. They don't even have to go for very long. When they come back, their health is a dumpster fire.

00;38;17;28 - 00;38;43;03

Chris

Their their bone density is decreased, their immune system is compromised. This is because they removed this stress. So stress is important. I like to picture our physiology like a beautiful, tranquil prairie, right? With prairie flowers and grasses and rain like a gentle rain is the stress that the prairie needs to thrive, right? So we need that stress. We need that tough workout from time to time.

00;38;43;03 - 00;39;04;00

Chris

We need to be walking like you are on a treadmill right now. We need that stress, the right amount of stress. But what happens if you're like an Anthony Kunkel and you create this dark, ominous cloud that's just pouring stress like a faucet in one spot into the prairie that's going to impinge on the prairie and do damage.

00;39;04;03 - 00;39;31;05

Chris

And that's where we picture this S60 molecule. I like to picture it like a sponge between the cloud and the prairie, absorbing all that stream of water. So so that it doesn't impact impact the prairie. Now something that's important to note if you don't manage the cloud, if you don't get rid of that high stress situation, eventually the sponge, the S6, the sponge fills up and starts to pour on the prairie again.

00;39;31;05 - 00;39;50;18

Chris

Right. So this is an infinite sponge. But when you manage that. So when Anthony's done with his 30 mile run because he's training and not a 50 mile run because he's actually running a race, but when he's done with this 30 mile training, then you can gently squeeze this sponge across the prairie. And you haven't done that damage in the first place.

00;39;50;20 - 00;40;09;24

Chris

And so that's what we really think is going on in the context of of these stresses. And again, your tough workout is that dark, ominous cloud. Your plane flight where you have exposure to EMF is that dark, ominous cloud. It's not as big as Anthony's cloud like because he's running for 30 miles. But it is that dark, ominous cloud.

00;40;09;24 - 00;40;15;08

Chris

And if you can just prevent the damage, then you'll get head to toe testimonials. And that's exactly what we have.

00;40;15;11 - 00;40;46;25

Mike

So correct me if I'm wrong. Chris c63, ss, s60 excuse me is a profound antioxidant. It's preventing oxidation. It's donating. Electrons were necessary to neutralize oxidation. Correct. Even though we're talking about handcuffing or neutralizing these negative free radicals. And to your point, promoting positive redox signal and communication between cells. S60 is a very powerful antioxidant.

00;40;46;28 - 00;40;49;04

Chris

It's a selective antioxidant.

00;40;49;07 - 00;40;51;03

Mike

Thank you for being more articulate.

00;40;51;03 - 00;40;55;25

Chris

That's a that's so you're right. It's antioxidant. And the benefit is it's a selective go ahead.

00;40;55;27 - 00;41;19;26

Mike

And then secondarily like methylene blue SS 60 is regenerative and cyclic a cyclic antioxidant meaning it can donate and accept donate and accept many many times before degenerating. Like vitamin C or vitamin E would do. Like once they start donating their electrons, they kind of start to degenerate. That's why you need to continuously consume those in higher quantities.

00;41;19;26 - 00;41;22;09

Mike

Is is that the similar thought process you have?

00;41;22;16 - 00;41;47;10

Chris

Yeah, that's why we call it a buffer. Right. So we're not saying that it's an antioxidant that replaces glutathione or melatonin. We're saying that it's a buffering oxidative stress system where you have this oxidative stress. And typically it's accepting that negatively charged particle. Right. So it's accepting that the negative reactive oxygen species and we believe it can hold up to six of them per molecule.

00;41;47;12 - 00;42;16;14

Chris

And just to give you some perspective on size one drop of your product, right. That has S60 in it with olive oil, has more than 400 times as many of these S60 molecules in one drop as you have cells in your body, right? In just one drop. So yeah, it's mind blowing how many and you, you start to think about, well, every cell has between 50 and 5000 mitochondria except for your brain cells which have 2 million like you.

00;42;16;14 - 00;42;30;22

Chris

So you need a teaspoon of this material. Actually I've never I need to do that calculation. Like what is the exact amount if one every single S60 molecule went to every single mitochondria in your body, how many would that be. But it would look like probably like a teaspoon.

00;42;30;27 - 00;42;41;22

Mike

Okay, just back up one moment for clarification. You're saying S60 attracts negatively charged particles or yes, or free radicals or negative free radicals.

00;42;41;25 - 00;42;44;23

Chris

Negatively charged free radicals.

00;42;44;25 - 00;42;48;25

Mike

Negative charge free radicals have extra electrons.

00;42;48;27 - 00;42;52;24

Chris

Yes. So that's what is attracting. Yes.

00;42;52;26 - 00;43;01;27

Mike

But isn't that counterintuitive to the thought that the positively charged ones are looking for electrons?

00;43;02;00 - 00;43;27;03

Chris

Yeah. No, I think what it's doing is it's actually an electron receptor, but it's a unique molecule because it can also donate electrons. It's a very unique molecule in this regard and in the context of mitochondrial support. Right. So reducing the negative impact of stress mitochondria we believe it's holding on to these negatively charged particles which are the more damaging reactive oxygen species.

00;43;27;06 - 00;43;38;28

Mike

Why is that? Because I guess my mind thought or my thought process is if they're negatively charged, those are more so electron donors versus electron stealers, or am I misconstruing that concept?

00;43;39;00 - 00;43;58;00

Chris

No, I think that you've you're so a negatively charged particle is going to be a donor. But it turns out that those negatively charged reactive oxygen species are the more damaging of the reactive oxygen species. Okay, like those are the ones that cause the oxidative stress the most. And so those are the hydrogen.

00;43;58;00 - 00;43;59;27

Mike

Peroxide and such.

00;43;59;29 - 00;44;00;17

Chris

Yeah.

00;44;00;19 - 00;44;02;22

Mike

Gotcha. Superoxide. Yes.

00;44;02;22 - 00;44;06;09

Chris

Negative. Those are the ones that you want. The negatively charged ones that you want to grab.

00;44;06;15 - 00;44;24;16

Mike

Yeah. Those are bad ones. Gotcha. No that makes sense. So going from there okay. The paddy wagon the prairie. We need a third one at some point Chris. So we went through the anecdotes now. Now it's kind of going unless you have anything else. Now let's go into maybe the market space or like why are we having this conversation?

00;44;24;22 - 00;44;41;24

Mike

Or I brought you on because I really wanted to help for the audience to delineate if they're going out into the market. They're excited about this potential longevity or like the potential of an S60 supplement. What's the difference between looking at a product that says C60 versus one that has S60 on its label?

00;44;41;26 - 00;45;05;24

Chris

So I'm going to walk back a little bit. So the study where the rats live 90% longer came out in mid 2012 and mid 2013. We started getting these phone calls from this wacky group of people, crazy people called Biohackers, which I can affectionately say now because I am a biohacker. And they were saying things like, hey, how much of this should I take?

00;45;05;27 - 00;45;39;06

Chris

And my business partner Robert and I, what we heard was, hey, that's stuff to that you sell to research institutions around the world to put into industrial products like ink, batteries, tires, photo cells. How much of that stuff should we consume? And our thought at the time was zero. Like, you probably shouldn't be consuming this because when you hear inks, batteries, tires, and photo cells, no part of you is thinking like, yeah, I did wake up this morning and look at my car and think, what part of my battery should I be taking every day for my health?

00;45;39;06 - 00;46;10;20

Chris

That doesn't happen. So we actually added not for human consumption to our labeling in mid 2013. To be clear, the literature was clear that it was safe. We are just conservative carbon nano material scientists, and every quarter we would get together and we would ask ourselves, do we want to get into the supplement space? And this is at a time where our phone continued to ring 2 to 3 times a week, and we would get the most interesting phone calls because they would be like, hey Chris, I got to share with you my knee pain is gone and we're like, you mean the knee pain of your heart?

00;46;10;21 - 00;46;29;07

Chris

Because it literally says, not for human consumption on the labeling. And they go, yeah, hey, if my rat weighs 275 pounds and does hit training on Tuesdays and Thursdays, how much should my rat be taking? Right? So we knew this was going on. My business partner and I, we're getting together actually in the conference room right behind me every quarter.

00;46;29;07 - 00;46;53;00

Chris

And we're talking about do we want to get into the supplement space and from mid 2013, 2013 to the end of 2017, we actually said no. Like we didn't want to get into the space. And in that time frame, I actually found a peer reviewed, published research paper that said 50% of the supplements and this is general supplements, not carbon 60 or S60 related supplements.

00;46;53;02 - 00;47;10;17

Chris

50% of the supplements that they purchased off the market did not have in them what they said they had in them. Right. So this is not a space that we really wanted to get into. Finally, at the end of 2017, a guy with a big YouTube following started talking about all the benefits he was getting, taking it on a daily basis.

00;47;10;25 - 00;47;32;20

Chris

Our phone started ringing ten times a day and we thought literally, this is an entrepreneurial opportunity in this supplement space, bigger than we ever thought. This is a situation where you look back at that peer reviewed, published research paper and people are going to come into this market, and 50% of them are not going to have in them what they say they have in them.

00;47;32;23 - 00;47;51;02

Chris

We're in a unique position as the oldest and longest manufacturer of this molecule, with the test equipment, so we can support companies like you to put out high quality products. We kind of have to get into this industry to, to, to kind of mitigate that challenge. It happened a lot faster than we really thought it was going to.

00;47;51;03 - 00;48;26;23

Chris

We ended up testing 22 of the products in the C60 space, all of them except for one and ours, of course, and yours, which we'll continue to do a test program on. We're woefully low and concentration. Right. So it was even worse than the 50% of the supplement industry from that paper. Much worse. So that's when we decided we really need to if we're going to go to conferences, if I'm going to be talking with your audience, who in your case, your audience is, a lot of them have heard of C60, but most of the shows I go on haven't heard of C60.

00;48;26;25 - 00;48;43;27

Chris

I want to keep them safe. I it's obviously good for business. I know that I own the trademark, but I'm very liberal with the trademark. As long as you're delivering a high quality product, that's the only way we can keep people safe in this space. And let me give you worst case scenarios, which actually exist in this space.

00;48;43;29 - 00;49;11;04

Chris

And we talked before. In general, I don't like to talk specifically about companies in even the C60 space, because I think it's bad for the industry. But there are a couple of companies that I will talk about because although they market themselves as C60 companies, they actually don't have any C60 in them. And so in my mind, they're not in the C60 space, they're actually in the fraudulent space.

00;49;11;07 - 00;49;34;23

Chris

So these are bold words. I've been talking about this one company for about four years. They have not bothered to sue me. I wonder why. And that is Fresca. And it's like C 60. He actually ended up with c60.com. That product has zero C60 in it. None a sells it in sunflower seed oil. It looks black. That's not what should happen with C60.

00;49;34;28 - 00;50;01;25

Chris

It's actually fraudulent to be talking about that. There's another one who's actually pretty big here. Global healing. I can't remember the guy's name, but they actually have a product. They call it supercharged C60. Right? So clearly trying to take advantage of this C60 research, all of their page talks about the C60 research. And if you read the nuances so they are at least honest in this degree, despite the fact that they have like 2 to 3 pages.

00;50;01;25 - 00;50;32;06

Chris

Talking about the advantages of C60, they do admit that it's nano onions. Now what? Our nano onions. If you imagine a C60 molecule and then you've got a bigger molecule on the outside of it, and then you have this layered Fuller Renick molecule, and then you cut it in half. That's a nano onion. I have good people who have been in the C60 industrial space for years, who love to put nano onions and motor oil, but there is zero toxicity studies on nano onions zero.

00;50;32;09 - 00;50;57;08

Chris

They've never been done. This is not a product that should be on the market. So that is a problem. Supercharged C60 is not C60 and I believe that's at at the minimum disingenuous to be saying it's a C60 product to talk about the C60 advertising and if in fact there's any C60 in the product, it's an accident and it might actually be like AC1 20 cut in half.

00;50;57;14 - 00;51;23;01

Chris

So is it a C60? Well, technically it's a C60, but it's an open cage C60 that's not this molecule, right. So that's disingenuous. So another one is water soluble. C60 is something that also does not have any toxicity studies on the market. And you should not be selling this without that bare minimum of toxicity. Studies like to at least know that it's not toxic from test subjects.

00;51;23;03 - 00;51;45;10

Chris

You know, from studies before you bring it to the market. The last one, there is one company that sells a C60 product. You know, those little Listerine strips to freshen your breath, right? Well, that's that's the size of their C60 product. It's a C60 Listerine Stripped kind of thing. A typical serving is a teaspoon or five mils.

00;51;45;12 - 00;52;06;20

Chris

How many of these little Listerine strips do you need to make a teaspoon of product? Right. That's that's a problem. And then there's one last one. There's some gummies on the market that are woefully low in concentration compared to their even their own standard of one teaspoon of olive oil. If you look at the concentrations for like weight, like what's a real serving?

00;52;06;20 - 00;52;29;10

Chris

Is it is it the point five that exists on your olive oil product, or is it the point two that exists in two gummies? Like is it a real serving or are we just playing around here? That's a that's a fair description of the C60 space. S60 does not have that problem because we're the lab, the oldest and longest manufacturer of the molecule on the planet.

00;52;29;12 - 00;52;38;23

Chris

The ones who provide it provided it in the original study, were actually mentioned in the original study. And we only work with really good companies like yours. Okay.

00;52;38;25 - 00;52;57;26

Mike

So all of that to say, I really appreciate that breakdown, Chris, because really, I wanted you one really for the last handful of minutes to allow people to. And this is we're probably preaching to the choir for the most part, but probably opening a lot of eyes to relative to the carbon 60 supplement space. Like, you really, really have to be careful.

00;52;57;26 - 00;53;20;13

Mike

People are always going to want to take advantage of trends. That's been happening in red light therapy for years. At this point. Clearly, it's happening in the carbon 60 supplements space. So it falls upon people with integrity and morals like you in the carbon 60 space and me in the red light therapy space to provide some legitimacy, some transparency to set a standard.

00;53;20;15 - 00;53;53;14

Mike

Otherwise, since it's unregulated, the standards are going to fall through the floor. And it's the wild, wild West at best. So I appreciate you painting the picture of what the industry, the C60 supplement industry, has been. And the whole point of this nomenclature going from C60 to S60 is to, as a product or company, verify and solidify that you're using a legitimate carbon 60 molecule, which to my knowledge, you're the only one that produces the S60.

00;53;53;16 - 00;53;55;07

Mike

Correct? Like it's not.

00;53;55;09 - 00;53;55;26

Chris

Yeah, yeah.

00;53;56;01 - 00;54;23;11

Mike

And I've always purchased my carbon 60 powder from you. I always have from the very beginning. And obviously that's not going to change. I always you have a couple of different grade threes ones like 99 point whatever. And the one I use is 99.999 or whatever. So as pure as I can get from what what you're producing. So that's why as bilat as a company and you know, I've talked about this for months at this point, but the switch is finally happening from a labeling and a product name standpoint.

00;54;23;13 - 00;54;53;00

Mike

We're switching our product name from bio C60 to bio easy 60. The product is exactly the same, just switching the nomenclature so that because there's only going to be a handful of companies at this point, right, Chris, that are going to be using the S60 nomenclature. So you as a consumer in the audience can go on the internet and instead of searching C60 supplements, you're going to have the knowledge and the security and knowing you're getting the quality product by instead searching S60 supplement.

00;54;53;00 - 00;54;53;28

Mike

Is that correct?

00;54;54;01 - 00;55;20;20

Chris

100% yeah. And remember S60 stands for Elemental Safe Spheres, right. So the elements carbon they're safe right? They're obviously spherical. They look like a soccer ball. But the point is, is that they're safe. And I'll share this. We had a company that early on was buying product. We didn't even know why they were buying it. Right. Because this is we're we're really kind of reticent about getting into the supplement market.

00;55;20;20 - 00;55;39;05

Chris

Right. And this company was buying from us. We found out they were buying a lower grade, and we found out that they were putting it into a product in oil, and we reach out to them and said, we're not going to sell that grade to you anymore. Like we're not comfortable selling that grade to you, which you mocked option there.

00;55;39;12 - 00;56;03;03

Chris

So we like it. We for like we didn't make like we stopped making money from that company because they were doing the wrong thing by the customer, and they're still in business, like they're still out there selling. They have never bought from us again. So they were less concerned about what grade they were buying. Than they were about, you know, whatever having a product on the market, profits or whatever.

00;56;03;05 - 00;56;21;13

Mike

Gotcha. Yeah. I appreciate you paying that picture too. So is there anything else you want to add to this? I mean, you were very articulate with it and that's kind of the message I wanted to bring to the people is awareness to the sea, to the carbon 60 supplement space. Yeah. Is this an analogy? Correct. Chris, could you call SS 60?

00;56;21;15 - 00;56;27;07

Mike

Is it analogous to pharmaceutical grade carbon 60 quality or something like that?

00;56;27;09 - 00;56;47;21

Chris

You know what I mean? I think that's a that's a great analogy. And here's my summary is always this hey carbon 60 is for industrial applications. And there is peer reviewed published research that proves if you improperly process it, it's harmful. S60 is C60 that's been processed for people in pets.

00;56;47;23 - 00;56;53;16

Mike

Ultra peers like the purity is exponentially more pure relative to industrial application.

00;56;53;18 - 00;57;19;22

Chris

Yeah, I would say clean as opposed to pure. Right. Because you're talking about a pretty pure grade already. And then the concern that people might have is actually any residual solvents, because the process of manufacturing C60 and getting it to a pure state requires solvents. By the way, any company saying that they've never exposed their C60 solvent, that's untrue.

00;57;19;29 - 00;57;44;07

Chris

It is feasible from a chemistry perspective of it is not feasible from a business perspective because of the cost associated with it. So if you need to manage those solvents, by the way, the industry, the supplement industry manages solvents all the time. A lot of it, you know, plant extracts have solvents involved in the process. So that's not that's actually extremely normal.

00;57;44;09 - 00;57;49;26

Chris

We just make sure in the case of S60 that it's been processed completely for human and pets.

00;57;49;28 - 00;58;13;18

Mike

Gotcha. For clarification, Chris, when I am presenting information or research, they're using the nomenclature C60 or C60 fullerenes. If I'm reporting that information from your perspective, should I still be using what the paper or the research is using versus substituting it for S60? Obviously, unless they're using S60, you know what I mean? Like so.

00;58;13;18 - 00;58;15;12

Chris

Yes, that's a great question.

00;58;15;12 - 00;58;21;01

Mike

Reporting the information and like promoting this S60 nomenclature here.

00;58;21;01 - 00;58;51;05

Chris

Here's how I would so the reality is and this is unfortunate by the way I would encourage people to go out and read more papers. Your my overriding consideration is keeping the consumer safe right. So if you're out there talking about C60 research they might go on to Amazon, they might type C60, they will find less expensive products, and they might end up with like some of the four products that I just mentioned that don't have toxicity studies that don't have C60 in them.

00;58;51;05 - 00;59;13;24

Chris

So for me, the safety of the consumer is more important. It is a trademark that we do control. So in those cases where the molecule has been processed properly, it is in fact a similar version to S60. So I do when I go on to a new podcast or if I'm talking to new people, I only talk about S60.

00;59;13;27 - 00;59;30;18

Chris

And if somebody wants to go do the research, great. We actually don't get a, I think ever. Any questions of people like, hey, you said S60, do you mean C60? The people are going to go do the legwork, will understand that immediately. And then of course, like a podcast like this where we've gone over why is this happening?

00;59;30;18 - 00;59;51;08

Chris

Why do we feel it's necessary to create the S60 kind of ranch? And you look at what's in the market, that's why we needed to do it. And so yes, hey, the molecule that was discovered in 1985 was the S60 because it is just a version that's safe for people and pets. And if you want people to be safe, you talk that way.

00;59;51;14 - 01;00;11;03

Chris

By the way, it took me about a year. Yeah. Right. Because I've like from 1991 all the way until 2018. Beginning in 2018, it just it was C60. And that's just all I called it. And so it took me a very long time to say it's S60. And again that's about keeping the consumer safe.

01;00;11;05 - 01;00;33;10

Mike

100%. Gotcha. Okay. I'll try to be mindful of that going forward. And it's going to be tough especially reporting research this S60. But what about you know that's kind of skirting the edges of saying what if I just say the research said C60 did this with a caveat afterwards saying if you're looking for a supplement, use S60, but for consistency sake, let's just like, let's be S60 and make that the name again.

01;00;33;14 - 01;00;35;18

Mike

That's consumers safety ultimately.

01;00;35;20 - 01;00;59;10

Chris

Yeah. As an example, I think it was about a year and a half ago now there was a study on beagles and they used S60 and it reduced their inflammatory response. Right. So obviously in that paper they mentioned C16. But if I'm going to talk about that paper and I want to make sure the consumer is safe, then I'm going to talk about S60 and its impact on the inflammation in in beagles, which is kind of a cool study.

01;00;59;13 - 01;01;05;15

Mike

100%. No. That's a good example. You can retrospectively talk about studies. Yeah using the term S60.

01;01;05;17 - 01;01;06;04

Chris

Exactly.

01;01;06;10 - 01;01;31;21

Mike

Gotcha. And then from a dosage perspective because this is along with how many S60 molecules are in one drop. That blew my mind the first time you told me that. On our previous conversation on the podcast, the other one that blew my mind was when I blew my mind blow was just like, whoa. That's interesting. Was from a dosage perspective, what is the upper limit or the upper upper safe threshold?

01;01;31;24 - 01;01;38;04

Mike

And your answer was, well, as much as olive oil as a body can tolerate, is that where you still stand today or.

01;01;38;06 - 01;02;01;22

Chris

Absolutely. And if you think about Anthony Kunkel, right. He tripled. So we our typical recommended serving is a teaspoon. He's taking a tablespoon at least I think he actually just takes the bottle and tilts it now. Right. So I don't even think he's doing any measurements as he's going. But yeah. So you're kind of the kind of subtext of the question is like, what's the toxicity level of this stuff?

01;02;01;24 - 01;02;23;07

Chris

And I often joke that it's the same as the toxicity of olive oil in general, which involves drowning. Meaning the reality is, is, yeah, at some point your body will get too much oil and you'll just throw it up. Now, is that oil toxicity or you're just body rejecting the oil? Like, I don't know what that is because it's not getting into your system.

01;02;23;10 - 01;02;41;28

Chris

You're just throwing it up. And I and I, I think I probably share this, you know, water is more dangerous, right? Because your body will actually absorb if you drink too much water too quickly, you get hyperhidrosis and that oxy like, you get too much water in your cells and they start to explode and people die from that.

01;02;42;01 - 01;02;57;12

Chris

This is not what's going to happen. By the way. Don't run around drinking as much olive oil as you can. Don't run around drinking as much as a 60 as you can. Like, but don't don't like. If you think that there's some thing that you want to address and you want to try some more, you can absolutely do that.

01;02;57;12 - 01;03;12;04

Chris

And like, you know, you look at Doctor Gundry and Brian Johnson, they're both of them are absolute olive oil proponents. We do use a high quality extra virgin olive oil. And so you want to have that kind of high quality product.

01;03;12;06 - 01;03;37;04

Mike

Of course. Of course. Okay. Good clarification. And then this is an out there. Yes. Similar to methylene blue. But what is your thought process on or your guesstimate on long term consumption of. Because we have a study that shows it improves longevity. But what about like taking a daily every day for months? For years? Like where do you think that answer is?

01;03;37;04 - 01;03;42;25

Mike

Meaning are there any negative potential negative side effects from taking this daily?

01;03;42;28 - 01;04;06;05

Chris

Yeah, I don't I think there is nothing on our radar. So I've been taking it daily and more than our recommended serving for at this point six years. There are people who have actually been taking it longer. That's where we said we don't. We're not aware of any negative byproducts. We're not a side effects. We're not aware of even any negative contraindications with different medications or different supplements.

01;04;06;07 - 01;04;26;18

Chris

If you want to talk about any potential negatives, one is if you're not used to taking oil and you start taking a teaspoon of oil, it will loosen your stool. Some like that is just what will happen. That, by the way, that would happen if you just took a teaspoon of regular olive oil, which I recommend. By the way, olive oil is fantastic for your health and that'll just last a day or two.

01;04;26;18 - 01;04;44;03

Chris

Right. So and we're not talking you know, Dave Asprey talks about disaster pants. We're not talking about disaster bands. We're just talking about, you know, a little looser bowel movement. And the other one, the other two. So one is we use a high quality extra virgin olive oil so you can get a peppery flavor at the back of your throat.

01;04;44;06 - 01;05;02;04

Chris

Some people aren't used to that. And like, oh, is that oil rancid? No, it's actually a high quality extra virgin olive oil. And then the the last one is a very small fraction of people if they take it later in the day, they say it'll keep them up. That's not true of me, but I'm not a great example because I can.

01;05;02;04 - 01;05;22;01

Chris

I like coffee with dessert. So after a meal and I don't do this all the time, I'll have coffee and it doesn't stop me from going to sleep. Now I have an aura ring. I know it's messing up my sleep, but it doesn't keep me from going to sleep. So some small percentage I would say in the 2 to 5%, we'll say that it'll keep them up later at night if they take it too late.

01;05;22;05 - 01;05;38;16

Chris

So that's one of the reasons we recommend you take it in the day. And again, it's just fun to emphasize the uniqueness of this. To take something in the morning, have a positive impact on mental focus and energy during the day, and then a positive impact on sleep that night is pretty fantastic.

01;05;38;23 - 01;05;57;25

Mike

Along with that thought process of dosage or the potential of taking a daily and maybe not. Not in effect or not, but still in you negative consequences. Which makes sense to me. If you're doing positive for the mitochondria, it's not going like super charged them. It's going to bring it to homeostasis and maintain mitochondrial function. So that makes sense to me.

01;05;58;02 - 01;06;19;01

Mike

And it's clearly been studied for its toxicity level or lack thereof. So what is your thought process on cycling on and off of it. Everyone has their own opinion like in supplements in general, like six days on, one day off, two weeks on, two weeks off for what have you. What's your thought process specifically to S60?

01;06;19;04 - 01;06;43;21

Chris

Our understanding is that the molecule is cleared out of the body in about ten days. Right. So that's where the literature, the research and literature goes. And I'll share. My business coach said that for 50 years he needed an alarm clock to wake up once he started taking the product, the S60 molecule, he wakes up before the alarm clock right when he's off the product for ten, about ten days.

01;06;43;21 - 01;07;09;03

Chris

He starts to need the alarm clock again. So you got kind of an anecdotal support of what the literature says. So that's one piece. I also lean on Anthony Kunkel on this because he's an expert biohacker he's not just a, you know, he's pushing his body to the absolute limits of human capability. And he when he first tried, the product was like, hey, I'm concerned that this is a crutch, that my body is like leaning on.

01;07;09;03 - 01;07;37;18

Chris

You know, if you take exogenous testosterone, you actually end up reducing your own testosterone production. He was worried something like that might be happening. So he cycled on off on. He's got his journal. And his conclusion was, no, this is not a crutch. Your body doesn't lean on it. It just adds value. And again, if this boss theory, if you're reducing the negative impact of stress, mitochondria like there's not really going to be kind of this negative impact.

01;07;37;20 - 01;07;39;24

Chris

In, in that scenario.

01;07;39;27 - 01;07;57;00

Mike

I know it's analogous to want to tell people about methylene blue. It's not like we're deficient in methylene blue or like there's a methylene blue tree or shrub out there. Like everybody's deficient in or that doesn't act as a crutch because of what it's doing to the mitochondria. It's not overtaking some other responsibility, it's just making it more efficient.

01;07;57;02 - 01;08;18;14

Mike

So with S60, same thing, it's not like we're just deficient in this carbon 60 molecule. And that's why it's improving our health in so many different ways. It's just what it's doing internally. It's not a crutch. If anything it's a helping improve the mitochondria thrive, which that's the ultimate, I think, the ultimate goal of wellness and longevity by and large.

01;08;18;17 - 01;08;58;20

Mike

So it makes sense that the cycling wouldn't be necessary. I know some people would still be proponents just because that's their method with supplements, but I'm totally on board with it. Especially to your point. In this modern world we live in with all of the environmental, all toxic factors that are bombarding our mitochondria, it behooves you or a person to be preventive or prophylactic in proactive about maintaining their mitochondrial function, because we're not going to escape the non-native emfs, we're not going to escape the glyphosate and the antibiotics in our food and water systems, like you'd have to be in rural North Pole or South Pole to escape it completely.

01;08;58;23 - 01;09;20;18

Mike

Yeah. So again, if your mitochondria are being really the seizure of all these environmental toxins, then doing things like S60, methylene blue, red light therapy, doing these things that bolster mitochondrial function are a huge boon to your not only acute health, but long term health because you're maintaining the most important engine in your body.

01;09;20;20 - 01;09;39;02

Chris

So there's there's some cool stuff there. One, the S60 molecule is a naturally occurring molecule, right. So if you got your points yep. You're right. The soot from a candle. So so literally everyone who's listening to this, whether they take your taking your product or not, has been exposed to the molecule. If you collect the soot from a candle, right.

01;09;39;02 - 01;10;02;23

Chris

So basically put a cold steel plate over a candle flame. That deep dark soot has parts per million or parts per billion of the S60 molecule in it. So we have all been exposed and and I like, like this is a fun exercise. I don't know how much I would lean on it, but you go back to biblical times, like there's lots of talk of extended life in biblical times, and it's fun to kind of pontificate.

01;10;02;25 - 01;10;18;16

Chris

Maybe they were using a different fuel source for their light, and that fuel source actually generated more of the S60 molecule. And so there was more exposure back in those times. And that has some impact on it. But I'm thought exercise.

01;10;18;19 - 01;10;26;28

Mike

Where else would C60 be interstellar. Right. So like stardust, if a meteor or something crashes into the Earth, is there any potential for carbon?

01;10;27;00 - 01;10;41;11

Chris

Yes. Yeah. The K-T boundary. Right. So that layer associated with the asteroid that destroyed the dinosaurs, that layer has elevated S60 molecules in it, right? And you're right in space. There's just tons of it in space.

01;10;41;11 - 01;10;43;22

Mike

Gotcha. So if you don't want to buy it online, go to Space and Capture.

01;10;43;23 - 01;10;46;25

Chris

So you can go harvest it yourself.

01;10;46;28 - 01;10;55;13

Mike

Well, Chris, this has been an amazing conversation. And is there anything else you want to add relative to the topic at hand or anything else you're excited about at the moment, health wise or otherwise?

01;10;55;16 - 01;11;26;28

Chris

So we're we're doing an ad hoc CRP study, which is pretty fantastic. I think I mentioned it to you before that. Let me throw it out. So this is this is exciting. And we'll just share like what's driven it. This doctor Lane Young came to us at at our booth at a for him. And he said, Chris, I don't care if you're male, female, pre-surgery, post-surgery, cardiovascular disease, otherwise healthy, your S60 product reduces elevated CRP numbers to normal ranges in 4 to 8 weeks.

01;11;27;00 - 01;11;49;27

Chris

CRP stands for high sensitivity C-reactive protein. The example that he gave was he had a client at nine who was his protocols were not able to move forward a sick 4 to 8 weeks after starting S60, it dropped it to 0.9. I learned later from an oncologist that nine means to an oncologist, hey, this means you have cancer.

01;11;49;27 - 01;12;11;02

Chris

Until we prove otherwise, right? That's how severe an elevated CRP number means, at least certainly in the nine range. And then often CRP is used to track cardiovascular disease. So we're really excited about that result. And proving out the data from that particular really testimonial kind of experience in a clinic.

01;12;11;04 - 01;12;15;21

Mike

So can people in the audience participate and if so, how?

01;12;15;23 - 01;12;34;18

Chris

There is a way. Absolutely. They can they can reach out. Well, they can reach out to you. I can run it through you if you want. Like, that's that's the right thing to do. And if they're in the right range, then we can figure out how we can coordinate that together so they can reach out what we would want is somebody who already has elevated HSC therapy.

01;12;34;20 - 01;12;49;24

Chris

So that's going to probably be in CRP of two or above. And then really they've tried some different modalities and haven't been able to move it if you fit into that category. So when you have the piece of data that your HSC hope is over, to reach out to MC and then we'll we'll coordinate that.

01;12;49;27 - 01;13;13;28

Mike

Yeah. Either reach us through social media DMs guys, whether it's by a letter, by personal accounts or just email info, by like that sharp. If you fit that description that Chris is looking for for that study. But I'm glad you brought that piece of information up, that anecdote related to cancer, because there seems to be some potential for some powerful anti-cancer properties of S60.

01;13;13;28 - 01;13;15;11

Mike

Can you speak on that or are you.

01;13;15;11 - 01;13;35;20

Chris

Yeah, absolutely. Right. So in the original study, a typical Wistar rat lives 32 months and has a known amount of tumor mass. So the longer they live, the more tumor mass they have in their body. Even though the SS 60 rats lived out to 62 months, so almost twice as long, none of them had any tumors. Now I'm going to share.

01;13;35;27 - 01;13;57;24

Chris

I share that with people and they're like, oh, cure for cancer. I'm like, no. And then I follow that with no. There's a huge difference between dealing with a cancer that has metastasized and being a cancer preventative. So we all know that things as simple as good nutrition, good exercise, good sleep are cancer preventative. That just throws this S60 molecule into that realm.

01;13;57;26 - 01;14;20;18

Chris

One thing I will share this is a petri dish study. Right. So this is the lowest level of study. But it is a profound impact. If you take cancer cells and healthy cells in a petri dish and you introduce an anti-cancer agent. So an anti-cancer agent is actually a poison, your goal is to hopefully poison the cancer cells before the healthy cells.

01;14;20;20 - 01;14;51;22

Chris

With the presence of the S60 molecule, you have increased efficacy of the cancer poison of the anti-cancer agent against the cancer cells and increased protective effect for the healthy cells. And our concept at this point is we we've just talked about the boss theory, which is inside of mitochondria, cancer cells. Their mitochondria function differently than healthy cells. And we think that there's some positive impact for healthy cells, which we've already described.

01;14;51;29 - 01;14;57;14

Chris

And we think that flips on the other end inside of cancer cells. And so that's what we think is going on.

01;14;57;17 - 01;15;26;29

Mike

But you know that's interesting from this side of studies I see of course you're doing the HCP study. Is there anyone else really pushing scientific research behind S60? I mean, I see a little bit turning out every once in a while, but it's more related to the industrial aspect. Are you kind of like the sole agency that's like looking to push the human consumption S60 forward, or is there other people kind of diving into that now that it's kind of gotten the groundswell with the longevity and biohacking communities?

01;15;27;02 - 01;15;47;29

Chris

Well, the reality is, is most supplement companies don't do research and even fewer publish. So we actually do do research. I think it's really important to do that, to be that outlier who is doing the right thing. And we actually did publish with the original researcher from the original paper. So Doctor Fathi Moussa, he was the lead researcher.

01;15;48;01 - 01;16;09;17

Chris

We published with him in May of last year. We just got another article approved. We literally just cut $150,000, check for the next round of testing that we're doing. So we are investing not only in research. There's another guy I know he's doing research, not really publishing. I love him, he's a great he's a great scientist, but he's not really publishing.

01;16;09;17 - 01;16;17;14

Chris

We are actually doing the research and we are actually publishing. So we are in in that context of very kind of unique supplement company.

01;16;17;16 - 01;16;48;01

Mike

No. That's amazing. That's where the transparency, the integrity, of course, that's what people should be looking for in all aspects of really as a consumer for everything. But especially supplements, space, biohacking space with all these different modalities. I think the proof in the pudding is third party testing and then research if possible. It's kind of the gold standard as far as topics related to S60, Chris, where like some of the top five or so things you would like to prove or disprove, or at least a S60 in its capabilities.

01;16;48;04 - 01;17;19;06

Chris

So the things that I would like to prove is a reduction in chronic stress, I mean, chronic inflammation. And you have to be careful about that. The proving that is it's a challenge. Well, one, we can prove it right. And even in that Beagle study that I mentioned has a positive impact on reducing inflammatory markers. Right. The problem is the FDA equates conversations about chronic inflammation with the diseases of chronic inflammation, which are also the diseases of old age.

01;17;19;11 - 01;17;44;21

Chris

Right. So that's Alzheimer's, arthritis, cardiovascular disease, cancers. So if I say we reduce chronic inflammation, the FDA hears me claiming we cure cancer, we cure arthritis, we are Alzheimer's, which we are not saying. And and so we have to be really careful. So it would be nice to prove in those particular situations that we're having a positive impact.

01;17;44;21 - 01;18;05;25

Chris

And I think we probably are, but those are that is something that I'd love to prove out. I'd love to prove this crp. I'd love to prove, even on the migraine front. Like that would be just amazing because migraines are just so damn debilitating. And again, if you think about 2 million mitochondria in brain cells, that's where the migraines coming from.

01;18;06;01 - 01;18;18;26

Chris

If you can reduce the negative impact of stress mitochondria, it's not surprising that you would have a positive impact on migraine. So those are things that we need to do more research to, to to kind of prove out.

01;18;18;29 - 01;18;26;03

Mike

Can you briefly describe the mechanism behind a migraine like what is causing it. Like I honestly don't fully understand it.

01;18;26;05 - 01;18;45;12

Chris

Yeah, I think I think actually the scientific community doesn't fully understand it either. Right. There are solutions are like the medication my wife would take are kind of blocking off receptors, but they don't know why those receptors need to be blocked off. Right. Like there are some causes of migraines which might be related to tumors that are oh look, that's a problem.

01;18;45;12 - 01;19;02;19

Chris

Let's get take that out in the migraine goes away. But I think a lot of migraines they don't understand. They tend to think about it like stress. They you know some some mineral deficiencies are understood potentially. You know I know I saw a video once of Gary Brett talking about you actually don't have any pain receptors in your brain.

01;19;02;23 - 01;19;19;11

Chris

So what's actually happened is being received somewhere else. So I don't think that they really know. But again, if you just think about the energy source and there's 2 million of them per brain cell, if you're reducing the negative impact of those, then it's going to be a positive result.

01;19;19;15 - 01;19;44;28

Mike

Yeah. Not just brain cells but all nerve cells. So I think to your point about Gary Brecker, okay, so our brain doesn't have the ability to perceive itself on a pain level is what he's saying. But all of the pain symptoms of like intense headaches and or migraines is coming externally from the cranium, which would be the muscles which do have nerves and nerves and pain signals to the brain.

01;19;45;00 - 01;20;07;14

Mike

And this comes from my experience, dry needling people. I could significantly reduce the intensity and the frequency of a person's headache or migraines, if not completely get rid of it over a course of a handful of treatments. But again, the way I'm treating people with dry needling is the nervous system in the way the dry needling mechanistically does that.

01;20;07;19 - 01;20;28;03

Mike

So I wouldn't be surprised if you end up finding S60 to your point and to your hypothesis. This is having a profound impact on the neural under the nerves which are sending the pain signals to the brain. There's got to be some entanglement with inflammation because inflammation sensitize us with nerves, meaning there's a lower threshold to send pain signals to the brain.

01;20;28;06 - 01;20;51;26

Mike

So if you decrease that sensitivity or kind of get rid of that inflammation, you'll decrease the sensitivity of the nerves. Meanwhile, improving the health of the nerves via the mitochondria with S60. So I think there's a couple of things going on that you can end up finding out, which again, very powerful if you're able to prove that. Because even if I get a small tension headache, I'm in a bad mood and I'm just frustrated.

01;20;51;29 - 01;21;05;04

Mike

I'm not as productive, so I can't fathom chronic headaches and my heart goes out to people like you and your wife that have to deal with that. So if S60 is more or less an answer, Hallelujah. I think that's amazing.

01;21;05;06 - 01;21;16;01

Chris

Yeah. Absolutely. No. And it's so we're excited that that is we're excited about continuing to do research so that we can speak more emphatically about, you know what what is going on.

01;21;16;04 - 01;21;46;18

Mike

Yep, yep. It's coming. It's coming. Slowly but surely. We will check out the information in the studies and I'll see what I can do for my side. I have some things I'm doing red light therapy, methylene blue, especially study wise. So bile. I will start pushing out some science. I don't know how quickly we'll be able to turn around information, but very recently that's been the modus operandi is to prove specifically with our whether it's our panels or our supplements, that red light therapy does do this or methylene blue.

01;21;46;18 - 01;21;48;15

Mike

Blue does or doesn't do this.

01;21;48;17 - 01;21;48;25

Chris

Yeah.

01;21;49;01 - 01;21;52;01

Mike

So we'll be pushing the scientific narrative as well going forward Chris.

01;21;52;03 - 01;21;56;24

Chris

Man very cool. So that's why we get along so well and why we're working together.

01;21;56;26 - 01;22;07;00

Mike

And yeah, we're gonna have a lot more podcast conversations. But just any last words, Chris, I know we're kind of getting along in the long in the conversation or any last thoughts about health, wellness, just anything else or want to wrap it up.

01;22;07;02 - 01;22;30;00

Chris

Yeah. No, I'll just say really appreciate working with you. You're you know, we had a conversation before. Our integrity are in line. And that's really important to me. And so I'm, I'm I'm happy that that you see value in S60 and also see the value in hey how can we keep consumers safe. Because you're out there doing a lot of good work educating people about new stuff.

01;22;30;00 - 01;22;34;03

Chris

And if it's going to be new stuff, let's let's keep them safe. So I appreciate you so much, Mike.

01;22;34;09 - 01;22;53;06

Mike

100% appreciate you, Chris, and thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule for this conversation, because to me, this was a very important one to have for me and my audience to really discern what's going on in the, you know, carbon 60 supplements space. Keep them safe. To your point. So we're we're both achieving our missions.

01;22;53;06 - 01;22;54;18

Mike

And so I appreciate your time.

01;22;54;20 - 01;22;55;18

Chris

Thank you so much, Mike.

01;22;55;21 - 01;23;04;09

Mike

For Chris Burris, this has been doctor Mike Bell Koski signing off another episode of the Red Light Report. As always you guys enjoy your week and light up your health.